Your World Of Experience

[Kristopher]

~

Do you see this computer in front of you? Where does the seeing of this computer take place?

Possible answer: In the brain.

Ok, if you take your brain and go to another room, do you still see it? No, you will not. You will remember seeing it, but you will no longer see it.

So, the computer (or anything) is a very important part of this experience of seeing, not just your brain.

So, does it take place in the computer? No, because if I remove the computer, the experience also ceases.

The experience requires the object and the brain together somehow. We know that. But the question is, where does the seeing take place? Here? There? Both? Neither? Where??

Now, when does the seeing take place? When does it start?

Another question is, where does the seeing come from, before it takes place, before you experience it? And where does it go after you are finished experiencing it?

[Gonzo]

Actually, this is west of my dwelling place.

well, the full quote is mo bettah

When reasoning is exhausted, saying and feeling are forgotten;
How could this be properly described?
Wherever I go, the frosty night's moon
Falls as it may on the valley ahead.
The fruits are ripe and heavy with monkeys,
The mountains go on so far it seems I've lost my way.
When I raise my head, there's a remnant of illumination left -
Actually, this is west of my dwelling place.

Now, why would that come to mind as a response here?

[Kristopher]

Now, why would that come to mind as a response here?

Geez, and I'm called the Google Guru.

For someone who certainly enjoys(?) this relative world so much, you crap out pretty early in discussions.

I relate your quote to unconcern. Yet, let me ask you...

You thrive on your view of unconcern, whatever you deem 'essential Zen,' yet also pride yourself with this word in regards to reflection on your life: "Dissapointed."

Please explain to me how you are unconcerned and dissapointed at the same time.

MLL

P.S. - ...and I know you are dying to explain your quote, so please do.

[Gonzo]

In re the quote, the first line relates to your initial post. That is, "When reasoning is exhausted, saying and feeling are forgotten". To continue trying to reason it out, as to questions of does the brain do this or that, am I the brain, do I die when the brain dies, is there any provable "I", am I one with everything, answering the question "Who am I?", essentially one will be exhausted, because there are no "real" definitive true answers.

So, wherever I go, the frosty nights moon falls as it may on the road ahead. Life goes on...the planet goes on...the moon still shines...the mountains are still mountains and I have my ten days supply of rice and a dry place to sleep. Oh, and an adequate supply of col'beer. What else is there?

My disappointment is in spite of unconcern and is a known indulgence. It does not seem possible to obtain a singular state and maintain it. IMO, enlightenment partially is a realization of that, not a total transformation to some imaginary state of being where one may be from that point forward, unconcerned. I doubt even old Hakuin was constantly unconcerned, but for the sake of the vignette, he managed at a dramatically fine time to be so.

[Kristopher]

~

Well shit howdy and YEE-HAH! Well done, Mc-G.

In re the quote, the first line relates to your initial post. That is, "When reasoning is exhausted, saying and feeling are forgotten". To continue trying to reason it out, as to questions of does the brain do this or that, am I the brain, do I die when the brain dies, is there any provable "I", am I one with everything, answering the question "Who am I?", essentially one will be exhausted, because there are no "real" definitive true answers.

So, wherever I go, the frosty nights moon falls as it may on the road ahead. Life goes on...the planet goes on...the moon still shines...the mountains are still mountains and I have my ten days supply of rice and a dry place to sleep. Oh, and an adequate supply of col'beer. What else is there?

My disappointment is in spite of unconcern and is a known indulgence. It does not seem possible to obtain a singular state and maintain it. IMO, enlightenment partially is a realization of that, not a total transformation to some imaginary state of being where one may be from that point forward, unconcerned. I doubt even old Hakuin was constantly unconcerned, but for the sake of the vignette, he managed at a dramatically fine time to be so.

[Red Heart]

So I was outside staring at the hose on the driveway and as I stared at it, it appeared to move. I then began to wonder…Is it really moving or is it really not moving, I saw it do both. I then realized that vision is not reliable therefore nothing you see can be taken as truth. Then I thought about hearing…often we hear what is not being said through our bullshit filter…therefore our hearing is unreliable and cannot be taken as truth. I then thought everything we see and hear is stored as memory, seeing and hearing are unreliable therefore memory cannot be taken as truth. I then realized that who I believe I am is from what I have seen and heard and remembered, and I then realized…therefore who I believe I am cannot be taken as truth….Just because I think doesn’t mean shit.

[Gonzo]

I then realized that who I believe I am is from what I have seen and heard and remembered, and I then realized…therefore who I believe I am cannot be taken as truth….Just because I think doesn’t mean shit.

Heh. Old Rene merely stated that because you think, it is proof you exist...he said nothing about quality.

[serendipity]

"Heh. Old Rene merely stated that because you think, it is proof you exist."

I think, not.

It is proof that, thinking exists, but not, a definite indication that an individual called "you" exists. The experience of individuality, could be, illusory.

[Gonzo]

"Heh. Old Rene merely stated that because you think, it is proof you exist."

I think, not.

It is proof that, thinking exists, but not, a definite indication that an individual called "you" exists. The experience of individuality, could be, illusory.

Yet, some "thing" thinks...the thoughts it has are unique in the world, just as is the body it inhabits contains unique in the world DNA. It seems reasonable to name that thing, it seems to me, and typically, it gets called the "self".