Essential Zen

In waking reality, or perhaps consensus reality, we all agree on its components, including the "reality" of one another. We recognize places, people and things and generally agree on their attributes. That does not seem to be the case with other realms.

I've read Robert Monroe's accounts of his astral travels, some of his clients travels, some of Stephen LaBerge's accounts, as well as the accounts of my former teacher's NDE's. There is very little if any commonality, even when these various people have encountered other beings, generally referred to as Inorganic Beings. Some report benevolence, some report malevolence, but there is no commonality.

In regard the realms being explored it doesn't seem possible to say of them there is anything shared as there is in waking reality. Doesn't that tend to invalidate those "realities" if we apply scientific method, which requires accurate duplication of the experiment by others?

Hi G,
If, we apply, "scientific method", then, yes, it seems to invalidate the various "realities" you mention, but, it may be helpful to remember that, "scientific method" was developed within, and aimed at, what we call, "the real world", therefore, we can expect that, it's application, will lead to perceptual agreements, about the nature of that "reality",................if, we are all sharing, roughly, the same position of the assemblage point, we can hardly be surprised when, we agree on what we percieve.

In journeys outwith our usual "reality", unless we shift to the same position as others, ( as in, "dreaming together,), we can hardly, expect to percieve the same things. Even if, we do adopt the same position, we may not percieve in the same manner, unless, we also, adopt, ( what DJM calls,), the same degree of uniformity and cohesion, i.e.; we not only, occupy the same position, but also, the same dgree of "fixation".
DJM mentioned that, there are thousands of positions that it is possible to adopt, which, result in the perception of energy generating(i.e.; "real",) worlds, but, if, we are not sharing our chosen position, and degree of fixation, with another, we wo,nt find any validation through agreement.

If, we add to this, the limited nature of human perception/awareness, it is inevitable that, there are so many different accounts, of what people encounter in thier "journeys".
The problem with our perception is, that, it is subjective by nature, and, that, we can only percieve in terms of what we already know, ( hence, the word, re-cognize,), thus, people give form to the "foriegn" energies encountered, in dreaming, according to, thier own personal experiences and expectations.

The only way, that I, can think of, to overcome the limitations of human awareness, would be, to dream together with others, and compare our perceptual details, whilst dreaming, and then, to compare notes on our dreaming, whilst, in the waking world.
If, anyone reads this, who, can dream together with others, at will, then, I can only, suggest that, they try this, and report back.


On reading over this, it seems like, I really know what I'm talking about! Hahaha!

Perhaps, I'll change my name , to "Lujan Matus", or, Lonewolf Nagual, and charge for entry to, online bullshitting workshops!

Hi again, G,
I'd like to add, on the subject of consensus, that, my own experiences of IOB,s, seem to have a lot in common with, both, DJM's descriptions, and, various native American descriptions of "allies".
It would be, convenient to attribute this, to my having read those accounts before, I encountered IOB's, but, whilst, that is true, of DJM's descriptions, - most of the native American accounts/descriptions, were encountered afterwards, due to my curiosity regarding my own experiences. As, many of those descriptions, fit my own experiences, almost exactly, this, would appear to be a validatory consensus.

Pardon me,.........bullshitting, again!

serendipity wrote:Hi again, G,
I'd like to add, on the subject of consensus, that, my own experiences of IOB,s, seem to have a lot in common with, both, DJM's descriptions, and, various native American descriptions of "allies".
It would be, convenient to attribute this, to my having read those accounts before, I encountered IOB's, but, whilst, that is true, of DJM's descriptions, - most of the native American accounts/descriptions, were encountered afterwards, due to my curiosity regarding my own experiences. As, many of those descriptions, fit my own experiences, almost exactly, this, would appear to be a validatory consensus.

Pardon me,.........bullshitting, again!

Bullshitting is good...the purpose of the forum.

Could you add more concerning N/A descriptions? Perhaps I've not connected the term IOB with some of their tales, since I doubt they used that term. My only encounters have been with one human form, and wolf/coyote/dog forms.

Hi again, G,
I have read, quite a bit, on the subject of IOB,s, from various N/A sources, though, - as you point out, - they use the term "allies", rather than, "IOB,s".
Much of what I've read, seemed like, the usual, mythical parables, but, some of it, had a lot in common with, my own experiences.
Unfortunately, I'm not much for bibliographies, or keeping notes. If, you are looking for further info, on the subject, I might suggest that, you contact a former member of your site, - "Twyxt", - who gave me some excellent links, to websites with reams of info, on N/A beliefs, (in between, showing of the chip on her shoulder!).

A good example of the corroboratory material, that, I'm refering to, would be, an email, that, Zam sent me, entitled, "The Ally in Marajiuana". If, you have,nt already encountered it, I suggest you ask Zam for a copy.

Dreamhackers have found a dreamscape thats familiar for most.
Dreamways might well know more on the subject of realm.

I have a feeling that its the same energy fields and beings out there, but that our personal mind perceive colors them differently

Hi MS,
Who, or what, are "Dreamhackers?

When you mention Dreamways, are you refering to a member on another forum?

"I have a feeling that its the same energy fields and beings out there, but that our personal mind perceive colors them differently"

I agree, though, I would,nt wish to suggest that, there are limits to existence, but rather, that, there are
limits to perception, - a major one, being, it is subjective by nature.
I feel that, appreciating the subjective nature of perception, is essential to any exploration of human
awaerness.

Perhaps, it is only, through "impeccability" that, we can hope to avoid becoming entangled in subjectivity.

Hi Serendipity

Dreamhackers
Here is a long description of them and their achievments
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/sho ... hp?t=83002

Dreamways
His forum is here
http://nagual.yuku.com/directory

****
"I feel that, appreciating the subjective nature of perception, is essential to any exploration of human
awareness."
That rings very true to me - Thank you!!
Also one must still be unattached to it...
*I smiling making this post*

Hi MS,
That, Dreamviews link, is rather interesting. Lots of dream info on that site. Thank you.