Essential Zen

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Chat has been most entertaining lately. An old member popped in, a new member arrived…and yet another old timer left chat, mentioning dissatisfaction.

Dissatisfaction with chat, or claiming chat is ‘toxic’ always brings a smile to my face. And of course dissatisfaction always stems from self importance, ‘this is better than that,’ which is really a cop out for, ‘I showed you my ugly baby [beliefs] and you didn’t dote on them enough.’

Brett nailed it, in saying that all beliefs are like ugly babies. We always want others to lie to us, tell us how precious and pretty they are, as opposed to being told they should be taken to the river and drowned.

If chat participants were a bit more ‘open’ to what’s presented, then all of us can be each others teachers. However, every time a nerve gets touched, the response is, s/he who touched it is: 1) Being a bully. 2) An Egotist. 3) Doing a power play. Another way to say this is, it’s always about the shooter, ignoring the reaction to the shot.

Now, we all make assumptions, and mine was, I assumed others in chat were really looking for some straight talk, looking into the reactions when their beliefs are questioned, and then perhaps work through those. Bad assumption, baaaaad.

Chat is always open to multiple topics, even at the same time. If a topic leaves a bad taste in your mouth, or perhaps gets you to look at yourself and what you need to deal with, yet are not quite ready to do so, just say ‘stop,’ or just ask the topic to be changed or change it yourself. Constant defense of how pretty your ugly baby is really can drain a person, and this is what causes dissatisfaction for the most part.

A retort to this is obviously, ‘you not only question, but then take it a step further to hammer an individual just to discredit them.’ This situation is often steeped in ‘status.’ It’s turned around, somehow saying that the questioner isn’t worthy of questioning, or, how dare you question the self-proclaimed adept. This is a common theme with ego-bound self proclaimed douche nozzles, as anyone who questions them is only out to tarnish their precious reputation. Pure rubbish. See above – it’s always about the shooter, ignoring the reaction to the shot.

Since we have nothing to defend, a question may be answered or not. Yet, don’t make excuses as to why it’s not answered, or excuses as to why it’s answered in a specific manner. Just be impeccable and answer as best you can. The answer lies within the question, and of course we should all strive to ask the right questions.

Now, I love all chat participants and am especially grateful for John to offer it as much as he does, being present in chat. Chat is what you make of it. Chat is what you take from it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, most of the time when I question an individual, it’s to clarify, mirror, my own behavior in another chat participant. I play both parts in chat, to look closer at my own ugly baby beliefs.

Of course anyone is free to come and go as they please, in chat or not. I guess what stymies me are the excuses made as to why they choose to not participate. It’s always someone else’s fault. Really? Hell, we even have one self proclaimed adept who won’t join us anymore, yet is constantly questioning G about, ‘are you all talking about me? Discrediting me?’ Wow. Got ego?

It’s all good. Join us if you wish. Or not. Just ensure you take responsibility for your choice. (Or not.)

K

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"Gain your enlightenment in a cave, but if it doesn't survive the marketplace [or chat], it ain't shit."

Nagual HoHum

It have for a long time been enriching and inspiring to be and hang in the chat - well still 70% of the time the topics/convo was not something that I could relate to nor found interesting.

It became a habit of just hanging out in the chat, not really engaging and being mostly bored too.

So dis-satifaction arouse, not so much with the chat and the members (old and new) as with myself wasting my time and being a wise ass jerk.

I choose to engage life in other actions. As it is clear for me that I gotta walk rather than talk, thanks Kris for poking and questioning

I'm thankfull for the many insightful touching fun and honest convos.

Best wishes to the YAW Chat

Apparently MS made a prior post and either deleted it or modified what is now posted. I thought his deleted comment was relevant, and more accurately expressed his reason for departure. He said (paraphrased) that there was no compassion in YAW chat, and that we attracted what we were.

In effect, I have to agree with him, however, that centers around the common definition of compassion, which is "a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering". There is a substantial difference between "compassion" and "commiseration" - the latter occurs, the former, not often. Part of the reason is that compassion is a form of self-pity, in don Juan's words: "Warriors are incapable of feeling compassion because they no longer feel sorry for themselves. Without the driving force of self-pity, compassion is meaningless."

I prefer the definition of compassion implied in the vignettes in "The Blue Cliff Record" and generally within the tradition of Zen teaching as I'm led to believe it takes place in monasteries. In that regard, when a teacher strikes a student with a whisk, or with a bamboo reed, or deafens him with a shout, or throws him bodily off the porch, he is expressing ultimate compassion. That is, he is forcing the student to get to his genuine self, knock off the self-importance, stop thinking about it, and be spontaneous.

YAW chat is called "The Crucible" for a reason. I can't go so far as to say it simulates a Zen monastery, or that there are achieved masters doing the shouting, however, the process is the same and the goal is the same.

However. Since YAW chat is not accredited, nor recognized as a formal place of instruction, when others are challenged, when their egos are attacked, when their self-importance is at issue, the usual criticism is that the challengers have no right to challenge and are merely using the situation as an excuse to pick on others, to bully others, to pound their own chests and inflate their egos. C'est la vie. Harry Truman said it right - "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

~

A power struggle collapses when you withdraw your energy from it.

Power struggles become uninteresting to you when you change your Intent from winning to learning about yourself.

Yes... but Harry also allowed China and North Korea to exist 50 years later to burden the Earth with a new feudal age...

I - obviously - have no idea what was discussed - probably many, many times on chat. Work for the last year and a half has been far too heavy and without set schedule to participate. That being said, a couple things come to mind... First... "Prometheus" was a pathetic ass excuse for a movie and Ayn Rand was so absolutely correct that the culture of America and the rest of the world is falling into a sewer. "South Park" and Snoop Doggy Dog represent the epitome of human accomplishment, as near as anyone can tell. Sorry, just had to get that out...

K... as far as "we attract ourselves" (in paraphrase), that is not always true - not by any means and it is kindergarten level new age "everyone is equal" pablum. High energy attracts like minded and "leveled" individuals, those that hope to become so within themselves and parasitic maggots looking to steal/kill. Gold attracts those who want to work to get some for themselves as well as those who want to steal it from the hard work of another. Jesus? Stuck on a tree with nails. Gandhi? Shot in the chest. Martin Luther King, Jr.? Shot in the jaw. And on and on and on... That being said, many of the things said here, while difficult, are also often Very important and - without being obsequious - I believe John has said it precisely: it isn't easy, there is no self pity, no one gets out of this alive and self importance must be beaten out of the indulger. Boxer doesn't get better until the trainer hits him or her over and over again in the weak spot. Why? So that weak spot isn't exploited the moment after death - no energy loss, no parasitic attachment to drain one away into a fear based dissolution and the trainer (hopefully) won't kill the boxer while pointing it out. Now, with that being said, can't imagine a level of precision with most here (or anywhere) to be able to assume that level of understanding re others. The reason Clarity is an enemy is that one thinks it is unfailable - that it's always right. It isn't - it is simply an efficient manner of navigation and must Always be subject to doubt. Not "sometimes" - Always. For instance, maybe I shouldn't have written this - it is something I must consider before posting. Why am I doing it, what positive result is there to other and, most importantly, myself sans causing undeserved harm to another. The other way of putting it is, "With great power comes Great Responsibility." When they need to be hit, then hit them - hard. When the cat is screaming in heat, throw it out of the monastery. But, beating shit up - and am not saying that is happening - just because the ability to beat shit up exists is indulgent. But, then, so is going up disrespectfully to someone that has trained for decades in how to beat shit up because he or she has sparred with masters and excellence.

Now, all that being said, it also came to mind today "Sweetness, Patience, Cunning and Ruthlessness". Sweet without being stupid, Patient but active, Cunning but not clever and Ruthless but never cruel. This is the means to stalk and, as Juan put it, most importantly, the means and way to stalk one's self. Furthermore, he said that it was exceedingly difficult and of manifest importance. Why? Sweet serves both as a means of interaction/disarming and as a general sense of kindness to the world. But not stupid - not giving of one's self to detriment, not allowing one to be used by the parasite - not allowing one's self to simply become fodder. Patient as it negates clarity and the constant blind activity of deeply ingrained intent - it forestalls the usual clumsiness of instant gratification and fear/comfort based craving. One is able to see movement, growth, windows opening and the evolution (or devolution) of process and, thus, see in one's self and apply recapitulation. But active - not the indulgence of inertia, the intransigence of passively-aggressively demanding that life come to one's self, not simply wasting the short time one has available. Cunning as it requires constant evaluation, considering efficiency, understanding responsibility - most effective use of time and energy free from the follies and insanities of others. The constant movement around the flow of intent that leads the vast majority to suicide. But, never clever - cleverness is the attempt to cache energy - to manipulate and deceive the attention of others in a vain and self-important comparison designed to care about their programmed thoughts in one way or another. Three card monte for amusement - slight of hand in petty attempts to show one's self that one is somehow superior. And ruthless - never ceasing secondary to fear, to self-importance, to self-pity and the illusion that this body is immortal. A clear understanding that there is limited time to accomplish the near impossible and there is no time for folly, insanity, the petty horrors and insults of youth. The focus of the warrior, the unbending mind of the individual that knows there is only this one chance, the uncompromising heart and spirit of the man that refuses to accept oblivion simply because so very, very many see only fear. But not cruel - the fear that power is lost, the fear that one isn't seen, the fear that the mirror is flawed, fear that somehow they were all correct and that the search and quest for self throughout life and eternity is a vapid, wasteful pointless... the need to kill all in order to survive.
That's what came to mind today.

Yes...four attributes of effective stalking, however...I still maintain it is not possible to stalk oneself. For that, one needs a facilitator. Kim's analogy of what a good facilitator does, is like grabbing a kitten by the scruff of the neck and holding it up to a mirror. The kitten may squirm and want to get free, and not look at the reflection, but cannot. In similar fashion, a good facilitator does the same thing, which, imo, is not possible for one to do to oneself, having spent a lifetime ignoring certain "unpleasant" aspects.

Hmmm this is a lovely thread. Nice to see JB back in the mix. I really feel I want to throw in my two cents worth. Chat and specifically Kris has pissed me off more than twice over the years...and every time I got pissed off I realized that it was not the other, it was me. I think that is the oh so very important point here. If someone on the computer bwho you have never met and may very well not even exist can twist ur cookies to the point of an emotional response then its not about Kris, G, Della or the man in the moon...its about you. No one can make us feel any way...we choose to feel and react certain ways. Until we get that we are victims of everyone around us, and we live stuck. So thank the assholes...they are really your best allies. Really really.

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“What we have here… is a failure to communicate.”

The new trend in insanity [doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results] is now, ‘listening to ascended masters’ as such, as many self proclaimed gooroo’s and many others choose not to listen to mere mortals.

Thus, if ascended masters are speaking to you, teaching you, whatever-ing you, and you are still the same ole’ self important douche nozzle, then there must be a communication/teaching breakdown, right?

“But, dear Kristabella, you assume we are not communicating or learning!” No assumption here. Everything is clear and obvious based on your re-actions and behavior. Perhaps this is an assumption though: If you are truly being taught by an ascended master etc., etc., and you still don’t get it, would not the quality of the ascended master be called into question? If one enters into an agreement with any external source, then the teacher is in charge. There’s much more to this, but we’ll discuss in chat.

When you know how to listen, everyone is your guru.

Now, that mean nasty ole’ Gonzo is always slinging shit and I do my best to counter balance this, residing in abiding love and light, compassion and tolerance. Chat really isn’t that difficult if one doesn’t take it personally, and, takes some responsibility for the comments made.

You see, many in chat have a keen bullshitometer. Ego and self importance are often hidden in quips here and there, keen sayings by others, wrapped up in a bundle of sweetness, stringing a lot of big words together that sound important, delving into dreaming experiences, near death experiences… shit like that.

It’s all good, please don’t get me wrong. Just understand that when questioned about said delusion, just reply naturally, don’t take it personally. Answer as best you can…it’s really that simple. Said ‘bullying’ occurs when one chooses to defend their delusion. Also note that there’s a difference between responding and re-acting/defending. It’s as plain as day to see.

Enjoy!

Red Heart wrote:Hmmm this is a lovely thread. Nice to see JB back in the mix. I really feel I want to throw in my two cents worth. Chat and specifically Kris has pissed me off more than twice over the years...and every time I got pissed off I realized that it was not the other, it was me. I think that is the oh so very important point here. If someone on the computer bwho you have never met and may very well not even exist can twist ur cookies to the point of an emotional response then its not about Kris, G, Della or the man in the moon...its about you. No one can make us feel any way...we choose to feel and react certain ways. Until we get that we are victims of everyone around us, and we live stuck. So thank the assholes...they are really your best allies. Really really.

True Red, very true. Some of my best teachers have been obnoxious co-workers, overbearing bosses, abusive ex-husbands and emotionally unavailable parents. The fact that I have learned my best lessons through these folk, however, does not make them wise men, lamas or ascended masters. (Perhaps in their own minds...)

What is all this fol de rol about teachers and gooroos? We are all teachers and gooroos. Just by breathing u r teaching...don't need a lineage, because lineages are for self importance. All that is needed is eyes...and a brain to think, and lose the expectations...then everyone is ur teacherwith no fees involved.

Chat has been modified to allow anyone to log in. I'm not sure your personal settings will be maintained...we shall see. When you login, you can use any nickname you want without a password.

There are two rooms available: The Crucible (default) and The Lounge. In order to go from one room to the other, use the /join command; i.e. /join The Lounge

Admin and moderator roles are available by using specific passwords, which will be provided via PM to those who wish to have them.

Back to the original chat...login will invoke the forum for username and password. To change username, you must change username on the forum.

G