Moderator: Gonzo
Maiveeta wrote:something that has been rollling around my head for the last little while...when is enough? what is enough? How do we reach whatever we are looking for? We must be looking for something...or we wouldnt be spending so much time talking, reading, practicing, being disciplined...for what do we seek that we do not already have? Truth? Divinity? Escape? Peace? God? Love? Answers? Do we not already have these things? Why do we spend time looking for truth when in fact there is no truth but our own? Just a coupla questions.
The only answer I can come up with at this point in time is its all a mindfuck to distract us from ourselves. To distract us from the knowledge that we are the creators of this world really quite literally. If we all created our own reality then how would we be led by others? In who's best interest is it that we not realize our own divinity and enlightenment? Certainly not our own. There has to be some deeply held belief somewhere that keeps us from becoming what we know we were meant to be. Is it the man trying to keep us down? That would be victimy wouldn't it?
Whats outside the box?
I don't think there is ever enough. I don't expect ever to be finally, and completely satisfied. I think what we are looking for is understanding, and in the process of working towards that, all the things you mention occur, including mindfucks. There's nothing wrong with a mindfuck, imo - in fact, mindfucks are probably the most effective of teaching tools.Maiveeta wrote:something that has been rollling around my head for the last little while...when is enough? what is enough? How do we reach whatever we are looking for? We must be looking for something...or we wouldnt be spending so much time talking, reading, practicing, being disciplined...for what do we seek that we do not already have? Truth? Divinity? Escape? Peace? God? Love? Answers? Do we not already have these things? Why do we spend time looking for truth when in fact there is no truth but our own? Just a coupla questions.
The only answer I can come up with at this point in time is its all a mindfuck to distract us from ourselves. To distract us from the knowledge that we are the creators of this world really quite literally. If we all created our own reality then how would we be led by others? In who's best interest is it that we not realize our own divinity and enlightenment? Certainly not our own. There has to be some deeply held belief somewhere that keeps us from becoming what we know we were meant to be. Is it the man trying to keep us down? That would be victimy wouldn't it?
Whats outside the box?
...what matters to a warrior is arriving at the totality of oneself.
I only allow the Blue Eyed Barbarian knows....I don't allow that he understands.
we dont see it because of our expectation and ego. "I dont feel Godlike"
Maiveeta wrote:Yesterday in chat Zamurito relayed a story about what his teacher said to him, and I must say it helped me a great deal to sort out this whole enlightenment business for myself...Thanks btw
What was relayed was "I am enlightened when I am enlightened" WOW...that has some amazing possibilities right there and I think some explanations about what enlightenment may or may not be.
I think that in the past I have had the wrong idea about enlightenment...it is not becoming omniscient and purple...it is about being. I have often wondered if Buddha was laughing because of all of the students silly knees bent running behavior when in fact we are all enlightened when we are enlightened and we dont see it because of our expectation and ego. "I dont feel Godlike" when in fact I have no idea what that feels like, I only have expectation and preconceived notion of what that may be according to my experiences. THATS why the ego must go, and THATS why expectations kill, and why recapitulation is imperative...to drop the expectation and to drop preconception of what things mean, and my judgement of who I am and who others are...just by looking at them, or talking to them. One must go through I think it is 5 dan before one can teach or whatever...I dont remember exactly how about a refresher Z, because that also was memorable, it related to not reinventing the wheel...me thinks that too is important in this quest for whatever we are questing for...good stuff
I was privy to that chat, and I felt Curtis' response was one of the finest I've ever encountered, and I have to repeat what it was, in response to Kris asking him if he was enlightened:Maiveeta wrote:Yesterday in chat Zamurito relayed a story about what his teacher said to him, and I must say it helped me a great deal to sort out this whole enlightenment business for myself...Thanks btw
What was relayed was "I am enlightened when I am enlightened" WOW...that has some amazing possibilities right there and I think some explanations about what enlightenment may or may not be.
I think that in the past I have had the wrong idea about enlightenment...it is not becoming omniscient and purple...it is about being. I have often wondered if Buddha was laughing because of all of the students silly knees bent running behavior when in fact we are all enlightened when we are enlightened and we dont see it because of our expectation and ego. "I dont feel Godlike" when in fact I have no idea what that feels like, I only have expectation and preconceived notion of what that may be according to my experiences. THATS why the ego must go, and THATS why expectations kill, and why recapitulation is imperative...to drop the expectation and to drop preconception of what things mean, and my judgement of who I am and who others are...just by looking at them, or talking to them. One must go through I think it is 5 dan before one can teach or whatever...I dont remember exactly how about a refresher Z, because that also was memorable, it related to not reinventing the wheel...me thinks that too is important in this quest for whatever we are questing for...good stuff
In response to your first question: It depends upon whether I am or not.
very akin to Bach's wife saying to him, "Johannes....the garbage..."I've thought that on *that* day, when the Buddha Attained, got home and told his wife, she said:
"That's nice dear, now go wash up, we have a dinner party to go to..."
One the one hand, it is easy to dismiss stories related about one who may or may not have existed thousands of years ago; and most stories written about him centuries after his death.
Nisargadatta was asked if he could, while sitting in his room in Bombay, tell his listeners what the weather was in NYC. He thought they were nuts and told them so. He said that is a special power and can be developed, but has NOTHING to do with breaking free of the illusion and awakening.
I tend to think that as one works the path of awakening, one develops some skills and once awake, still has those skills. Like lifting weights as part of practice, till one can bench press 300 lbs. Then, one day he awakes and while lifting weight is clearly seen to have nothing to do with Enlightenment, nonetheless the it is taken that E will give one great strength.
But, the question why is the ability to trace previous birth attributed to the Buddha?
I have no idea. It is easy to ascribe it to egoic-Maya illusion - once more (deliberately) confusing E with not-E and once again, as all religions and spiritual practices do - shift one's attention from The Truth, to a "nice story" that will keep one sleeping soundly and feeling good.
The Buddha is quoted as saying "there is suffering, but no one suffers."
How would that square with seeing previous birth?
Sure, images can come and go and stories proliferate.
That's the point. All there IS is the story.
The REAL question is who or what rebirths?
The REAL question is who or what rebirths?
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