Essential Zen

I've made forays into various "ways", however, prior to doing so, I encountered Zen. I don't mean the Zen of sitting Zazen, whether in a monastery or at home on a meditation cushion, with the incense burning and the quiet sound of bells on the stereo. Those are valid for some folk...they are not for me, however I experimented with those things to find that out.

Key...thinking you can change, or get better, why enlightened? Kim - content with herself

Wanting enlightenment is wanting to become or to be something other

Self-deprecation - learned early to dislike self (not so with Kim...the only person I know who has ever said she liked herself, and has always liked herself.

"Neither Wolf nor Dog" - hive mentality - required to engage the nagual?

drama...and taking it seriously..what have I always loved? fights, in high school...damn...the drama of sex in all its wild ass versions, all the perversions

Predilection...Dalai Lama syndrome - destiny...is to be only what you essentially are...Curtis Sensei is just being essentially what he is...he rings true...however, YOU cannot be Curtis Sensei...rather like Karbo saying "be realistic" - you can't imagine being a CEO unless you have the abilities required to be a CEO...what are you, then?

Discover...HuangPo was HP...I cannot be like him...nor can I be like MK...nor do I wish to be. I don't have his abilities...I have my own abilities, and that's all there is...there is only taking the rocks out of the backpack....or not, as predilections warrant.

"Desire is the root of all sorrow." ...and perhaps one of the strongest desires, and one yielding perhaps the most sorrow, is the desire to become enlightened.

Nice crap G!

I dont think that the desire for enlightenment really brings the sorrow. Its the desire to be free from the suffering of the world which affects us, which can bring the true sorrow.

I dont see how the world affected buddha anymore different than how it affects us on the path, if we get on that road similar to the buddhist, whatever flavor, zen, mahayana, theravada, tibetan. This road is hard, and everyone's road is hard. Cause rich or poor, beautiful or not, et al, this is a world which you cannot escape finding suffering or experiencing it.

Enlightenment, offers a way 'out,' but its trick is to unhook from craving, or attachment to worldly things, cause the worldly things keep us 'in' suffering. Undo the craving, ceases the desire, and the enlightenment comes. Thats how he did it, no sorcery, nothing metaphysical, he was just able to 'end it,' from within, and his attachment to the world.

datura wrote:I dont think that the desire for enlightenment really brings the sorrow. Its the desire to be free from the suffering of the world which affects us, which can bring the true sorrow.

I dont see how the world affected buddha anymore different than how it affects us on the path, if we get on that road similar to the buddhist, whatever flavor, zen, mahayana, theravada, tibetan. This road is hard, and everyone's road is hard. Cause rich or poor, beautiful or not, et al, this is a world which you cannot escape finding suffering or experiencing it.

Enlightenment, offers a way 'out,' but its trick is to unhook from craving, or attachment to worldly things, cause the worldly things keep us 'in' suffering. Undo the craving, ceases the desire, and the enlightenment comes. Thats how he did it, no sorcery, nothing metaphysical, he was just able to 'end it,' from within, and his attachment to the world.

Perhaps.

I'm of the opinion, lately, there is no "way out", that each of us has iron-clad predilections, and the best we can do is accept what we find in its totality. In the case of Gautama, his own predilections led him to what he achieved. Likewise Jed McKenna. Enlightenment in that regard could have many different interpretations, perhaps the best of which is as Don Juan said, achieving the totality of oneself.

In this regard, I'm reminded of something I posted elsewhere, copied from a blog I encountered, where Gautama achieves enlightenment, goes home to his wife, she says, "That's nice, dear..now wash up...we're going out to dinner."

Thats what I woulda said to the Buddha if he left me - plus then I could have him help out with taking out the trash - he was very good at it under the bodhi tree, imagine in the house how good he could spiffy up the joint? LOL