by Red Heart on Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:29 pm
Gonzo[1:04:37 PM]: here, the essential statement re Zen
Gonzo[1:04:39 PM]: Zen insists that the Zen practitioner plant his or her feet in the everydayness of here and now.
maiveeta[1:29:36 PM]: ok heres the thang for today for me, I need to write it down or I will forget
Gonzo[1:29:54 PM]: write
maiveeta[1:30:04 PM]: taking things personally is the prison. wheter it was meant personally or not
maiveeta[1:30:21 PM]: to strip away what is others and what is truly mine
Gonzo[1:30:29 PM]: certainly
maiveeta[1:30:44 PM]: to find what is mine is to find emptiness
Gonzo[1:31:06 PM]: not emptiness....FULLNESS
maiveeta[1:31:14 PM]: both
maiveeta[1:31:20 PM]: not one or the other
maiveeta[1:31:22 PM]: but both
maiveeta[1:32:03 PM]: it occured to me while doing dishes why we get so upset over what others think
Gonzo[1:32:02 PM]: I'm going to post a link to that Zen piece...some of the best shit I've read re essential Zen
maiveeta[1:32:10 PM]: evolutionarily
Gonzo[1:32:18 PM]: and why do we?
maiveeta[1:32:44 PM]: because if the elders didnt like you you wouldnt get enough food
maiveeta[1:32:57 PM]: alpha/beta dominant non dominant
Gonzo[1:32:54 PM]: heh
maiveeta[1:33:15 PM]: amazing what you can glean while doing dishes
Gonzo[1:33:12 PM]: think right, act right, or you won't get fed
maiveeta[1:33:23 PM]: yes
Gonzo[1:33:22 PM]: heh
maiveeta[1:33:41 PM]: push your beliefs become alpha and get the girls and the grub
maiveeta[1:33:51 PM]: wow old stuff
Gonzo[1:33:53 PM]: Zen and the art of dishwashing...McKenna gets into that
maiveeta[1:34:14 PM]: LOL goes back to fetching water and wood
maiveeta[1:34:20 PM]: mindless
maiveeta[1:34:24 PM]: or mindful
maiveeta[1:34:27 PM]: both really
Gonzo[1:34:37 PM]: response/reward stuff? something like that? are we then rats ina maze?
maiveeta[1:35:05 PM]: kinda...dominant/submissive
maiveeta[1:35:28 PM]: we havent REALLY understood viscerally that we get food and girls no matter what
maiveeta[1:35:39 PM]: dna spreads
This is a conversation had this morning. I really think there is some good wisdom here. Some stuff I wanted to keep and share. Theres more
maiveeta[12:15:44 AM]: one of the things that has caught my attn lately is the pure frustration of communication
maiveeta[12:15:51 AM]: and it is fascinating
Gonzo[12:16:02 PM]: yeah?
maiveeta[12:16:29 AM]: yeah...I think I make myself clear and as it turns out I have not
maiveeta[12:16:55 AM]: I am clear to me...but sometimes not to another
maiveeta[12:17:20 AM]: looking at others bullshit filters and trying to penetrate them
maiveeta[12:17:33 AM]: not to mention mine
maiveeta[12:18:17 AM]: I say "weigh all the rats" to most that would mean weight ALL the rats
maiveeta[12:18:38 AM]: not to some... it means weight all but extras...
maiveeta[12:18:45 AM]: or all but the females
maiveeta[12:18:57 AM]: but that is not what was originally said
Gonzo[12:19:04 PM]: well, you always have the opinion of the other interpreting
maiveeta[12:19:21 AM]: RIGHT!
maiveeta[12:19:41 AM]: when we take the others misunderstanding personally then comes the conflict
Gonzo[12:20:04 PM]: heh
maiveeta[12:20:12 AM]: when we understand that there was a communication issue...then there is not conflict
Gonzo[12:20:16 PM]: well, really, I suspect, we all take everything personally
maiveeta[12:20:25 AM]: but an opportunity
maiveeta[12:20:36 AM]: fuckin factual my friend.
Gonzo[12:20:38 PM]: an opportunity for a fight?
maiveeta[12:20:49 AM]: no for learning
Gonzo[12:20:55 PM]: heh
Gonzo[12:21:02 PM]: I
Gonzo[12:21:19 PM]: er
maiveeta[12:21:25 AM]: taking things personally may actually be the root of all eeeevil
Gonzo[12:21:26 PM]: learning....
Gonzo[12:21:41 PM]: nah...maybe the root of all drama
maiveeta[12:22:21 AM]: so. what is taking things personally?
Gonzo[12:22:27 PM]: here's a cool statement I ran into a long time ago
Gonzo[12:22:39 PM]: by Fritz Perls
Gonzo[12:22:58 PM]: gotta say this first, then comment re taking things personally
maiveeta[12:23:14 AM]: k
Gonzo[12:23:18 PM]: dunno if you know who Perls was...supposedly the father of Gestalt Therapy...
Gonzo[12:23:32 PM]: rather well known psychologist...I think he started Esalen
Gonzo[12:23:34 PM]: anyway
maiveeta[12:23:38 AM]: nope, I dont do people or psychology
Gonzo[12:23:57 PM]: he said, when dealing with patients, he didn't listen to what they were saying, he listened to the music
maiveeta[12:24:49 AM]: the music?
Gonzo[12:24:55 PM]: and that's a gas to do sometimes, when talking with others...ignore what they're saying literally, and listen to their music
maiveeta[12:25:05 AM]: ah
Gonzo[12:25:10 PM]: yeah...they are all doing a symphony
Gonzo[12:25:29 PM]: body language, attitude, feeling, all of it...communicated when they talk
maiveeta[12:25:41 AM]: YES! you can hear it on the forums....interesting
Gonzo[12:25:47 PM]: absolutely
maiveeta[12:26:00 AM]: nice
Gonzo[12:26:36 PM]: so, taking it personally, usually means you feel affronted, dissed, not taken seriously, put down, etc etc etc
maiveeta[12:26:49 AM]: hm brb gonna have a butt and process this...and then back to what is taking things personally
Gonzo[12:26:57 PM]: heh
Gonzo[12:27:06 PM]: smoke'm if you got'm
maiveeta[12:34:18 AM]: back
Gonzo[12:34:35 PM]: wb - good article on Zen, btw
maiveeta[12:34:46 AM]: good
maiveeta[12:36:09 AM]: so, losing SI and some what seems to be abusive treatment of Zen students, and harsh treatment of children that are destined to be Shaman's of the tribe is an effort to teach them to not take things personally?
maiveeta[12:36:23 AM]: hm
Gonzo[12:36:45 PM]: nah...just fun to hit the little bastards
maiveeta[12:37:05 AM]: LOL!
Gonzo[12:37:21 PM]: respect ur elders...
Gonzo[12:37:22 PM]: heh
Gonzo[12:37:38 PM]: go to school
Gonzo[12:37:43 PM]: is it time for a beer yet?
maiveeta[12:37:52 AM]: taking things personally is the prison imho
Galileo Galilei: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."