Change

[Gonzo]

Nobody really changes. Not really. The best we can do is to acquiesce to our essential selves.

From "Tales of Power":

"What matters is that a warrior be impeccable," he finally said. "But that's only a way of talking, a way of beating around the bush. You have already accomplished some tasks of sorcery and I believe this is the time to mention the source of everything that matters. So I will say that what matters to a warrior is arriving at the totality of oneself."

Each of us on these forums has an identity, and in my experience over the last few years, no one has really changed. That is, when I chat with them, I "know" who they are, and they "know" who I am. I've not changed in that time period, and neither have they. True, we all have had more experiences, we've added to personal history, maybe read some influential stuff, encountered some things that were profound, had some dreams that were likewise. But. We're still here, essentially as we were when we first encountered one another.

I'm more and more convinced that the business of predilections is of paramount importance, that perhaps the most profound thing we can do is to discover those predilections and rather than fight against them, accept them and even try to live in accord with them. That, to me, is "arriving at the totality of oneself".

Amplifying your innate abilities is not change.

Uncovering who you really are is not change.

"My life was changed forever" does not mean YOU have changed.

[datura]

John, wouldnt that be a denial of the nature of impermanence?

I turned 40 in january, and I quit smoking, I was also recently diagnosed Bipolar I.

Id say thats change, what say you?

[Gonzo]

As I posted, uncovering who you really are is not change, including discovering bipolar. And, of course, the entire business of life is change, or impermanence. That's not the "change" I'm referring to. I'm referring to essential self. I'm of the opinion that essence, that which we each identify as being another that we "know", does not change.

[Affinity]

I like this idea... basically it means I've always been awesome and always will be. Damn I'm fucking cool! *gives self a big hug*

[Gonzo]

I like this idea... basically it means I've always been awesome and always will be. Damn I'm fucking cool! *gives self a big hug*

Yes, you have always been awesome....at least, that's how I've recognized you.

[datura]

Oh if you mean the buddha nature - that spotless, perfect 'core' in all sentient beings? Then I most certainly agree, yes. That purity does not change.

[datura]

I like this idea... basically it means I've always been awesome and always will be. Damn I'm fucking cool! *gives self a big hug*

Yes, you have always been awesome....at least, that's how I've recognized you.

Dont forget

Were all awesome, actually.

[redspiderlily]

I like this idea... basically it means I've always been awesome and always will be. Damn I'm fucking cool! *gives self a big hug*

Yes, you have always been awesome....at least, that's how I've recognized you.

Dont forget

Were all awesome, actually.

Yes we are!

I dunno that I agree though John, that we don't change. In my opinion, I'llbe different in five minutes than I am right now. I'll had shed some skin, grown some new hiar, some new ideas, aged a bit, maybe learned a thing or two depending. In my opinion everything is always changing, that includes people, too.

Maybe not drastic changes, but always changing. I guess it depends on how we measure these changes.
Still the same core?

[Gonzo]

I dunno that I agree though John, that we don't change. In my opinion, I'llbe different in five minutes than I am right now. I'll had shed some skin, grown some new hiar, some new ideas, aged a bit, maybe learned a thing or two depending. In my opinion everything is always changing, that includes people, too.

Maybe not drastic changes, but always changing. I guess it depends on how we measure these changes.
Still the same core?

That's the point...."Still the same core" - that's what doesn't change, and what is considered change usually is further discovery of the genuine core.

[redspiderlily]

I dunno that I agree though John, that we don't change. In my opinion, I'llbe different in five minutes than I am right now. I'll had shed some skin, grown some new hiar, some new ideas, aged a bit, maybe learned a thing or two depending. In my opinion everything is always changing, that includes people, too.

Maybe not drastic changes, but always changing. I guess it depends on how we measure these changes.
Still the same core?

That's the point...."Still the same core" - that's what doesn't change, and what is considered change usually is further discovery of the genuine core.

Is the core separate from the rest? If some changes... all changes, in my view.

If an apple gets bruised or a bite taken out of it, the core is still the same, but has the apple changed?

Seems so.

[Gonzo]

Is the core separate from the rest? If some changes... all changes, in my view.

If an apple gets bruised or a bite taken out of it, the core is still the same, but has the apple changed?

Seems so.

No two apples are really the same, are they, bitten, bruised or not? We may not be able to percieve the unique aspects of each, almost like being able to tell one mockingbird from another. The mockingbirds somehow know who is who, which is a mate, which is a family member, which an interloper...they all look the same to me. However, each is unique...each has a core, an essence that is unique, and like us, I don't think it changes.

[redspiderlily]

...they all look the same to me.

[Gonzo]

Well, this thread hasn't gone exactly as I thought it might, so I'll continue with some further thoughts.

Assuming we don't change, that is, our essence does not change and the processes we are going through are twofold: one, learning (experiencing being); and two, perhaps uncovering or discovering essential self - then the business of spiritual growth (being on a path, etc) takes on a different dimension. I suspect in most instances, we are trying to be or to become something we aren't.

I should make this more personal. That is, I have been trying to be or to become something I'm not. There's a difference between this and discovering or uncovering essence. My interpretation of becoming enlightened basically translated to acquiring a state of being in which I was content. That is, content with who I found myself to be, and content with my surroundings and situation.

In effect, when several years of therapy did not produce the changes or results I wanted, I turned to the spiritual paths and discovered enlightenment through Zen. What I have subsequently realized was that the goal of therapy and the goal of enlightenment were the same. Both are sought only after making the judgment that something is wrong with the self and something needs to be done to correct it.

That fault in that reasoning is that the notion that something is wrong with self is incorrect, and from all indications, something acquired in childhood. It doesn't matter where it comes from, however. The notion that self is not right or needs repair or fixing is the result of a negative judgment. And, I've found, that judgment remains regardless of any positive comments by any others.

So. Somehow, after digging through lots of Zen literature, I still managed to copy down some relevant commentary, and in regard the whole business of becoming enlightened, I didn't realize I had got hold of the essential truth of it in this quip:

In clear illumination, there is no such thing as awakening. The concept of 'having awakened' turns around and deludes people. When you stretch out both feet and sleep, there's no false and not true - thus there isn't a single concern in one's heart. When hungry one eats; when tired, one sleeps.

Loosely translated, that means there really is no such thing as enlightenment, and now, I think I begin to understand really what that means.

[Red Heart]

I suspect in most instances, we are trying to be or to become something we aren't.

I really disagreed with this when you first postulated it in chat. I now tend to agree with you.

Both are sought only after making the judgment that something is wrong with the self and something needs to be done to correct it.

We are taught from early childhood that we are bad. "dont be a bad boy/girl" or you are such a bad boy/girl you are grounded, cant have dinner... whatever, thereby starting the idea that we are somehow bad. Then we go to school, get grades to let us know just exactly how good/bad we are...none of those things are true. So we carry around this manufactured structure of what is good/bad. We are what we are...thats good stuff right there, never thought of it that way before.

[Red Heart]

and...dude its what I have been telling y'all all along...YOU are already enlightened YOU just have to figure it out....