Enlightenment Redux

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Re: Enlightenment Redux

Postby Red Heart on Tue May 26, 2009 7:52 am

The false is purely an apparition; it exists only in the eye of the beholder.


As does truth. There is no immutable truth...everything changes and morphs and becomes refined. Refined to what, you may ask...more refinement. Methinks you are operating on a misconseption, or not.
Galileo Galilei: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
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Re: Enlightenment Redux

Postby Gonzo on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:40 pm

Atomicinterpretation wrote:Ahhh Enlightenment. Funny enough, if anyone here has read or seen Fight Club, I'm reminded of Tyler Durden's words, 'What you're feeling is premature enlightenment.' followed somewhere by 'Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.' So the 'In reality there is no such thing as awakening...' quote really hits home. I like it. I'm getting the feeling that enlightenment is just as much of a wild goose chase/ego trip as the monotheistic curse of 'the One True God'. The word evolution I feel is much more appropriate. Considering that mystics throughout the ages have said repeatedly that any experience of the 'highest' plane consists of the ineffable, the unspeakable, and is therefore not communicable, 'true enlightenment' seems just as wishywashy. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not putting down anyone's personal experiences, each has it's own subjective reality that's just as legit as my own experiences with the 'divine' (some of which remain indescribable).

However, when one has an experience that could be called transcendental or mystic, attributing 'ultimate reality' to it and calling it enlightenment (or God) is similar to turning dogmatic and closing the doors to any other possibility. I read somewhere that only ignorance 'finds God', while Wisdom continually seeks it. Similarly, the dogmas of science continually assert the newest theories as the truth while conveniently ignoring their very own fields constant evolution through time, somehow presuming that only now have we found the right answers. Personally, I see a very basic formula in science (and mysticism) that seems to never get mentioned because it's so confounding to the basis understanding, but for every ONE answer we find, MULTIPLE questions arise. How far can this go on? How deep is the rabbit hole? How can you measure one monks enlightenment to another? And what happens if you reach higher than enlightenment? You get burned like Icarus? (Or is enlightenment just the edge/center of the existential universe?) I think the Bible says somewhere something like if you saw Gods face, or heard God's voice, you would die. So how close can you get before you spontaneously combust and your third eye ascends in flaming glory?

Ok, yadda yadda yadda, the eternal arguments....whatever. Practically speaking, I think it's safe to say that no human being is perfect, and to STRIVE towards being less of a cosmic schmuck is the ACTUAL point here. To become ever more 'Godly' and more 'enlightened' are well within the bounds of human existence and potential (infact, it seems to be our calling card). The fact that there is no measuring stick for enlightenment is irrelevant, because it's continual evolution that is a more accurate reflection of the cosmos that created us anyway. Dogma is subject to entropy, and hence the religious malfunctioning of the times.

So toss 'enlightenment' out the window and seek evolution. (Why put arbitrary limits on a seemingly limitless inner universe anyway?) Thus, only those who seek evolution do so out of humility and recognition of greater possibilities, whereas those who seek enlightenment COULD be humble, or could also be on an ego trip, or just seeking escape, or other things I haven't thought of.

I have no comment on any such 'afterlife', but the pursuit certainly does seem to have a generally positive effect on the current life.


Welcome to the fray, btw, and yes, "The Fight Club" has been cussed and discussed at some length.

I first encountered the notion of enlightenment when I encountered Zen. At the time, it seemed the ultimate goal - all the Masters were enlightened - each had been acknowledged by a senior or an abbot. However, regardless what I read, I never really got hold of a proper definition of what enlightenment was. (I beleive the start of this thread covers that.)

What follows, however, is an edited excerpt from Jed McKenna's first book, "Spiritual Enoightenment - The Damnedest Thing" - perhaps the best definition so far.

Jed McKenna wrote:Enlightenment is truth-realization. Not only is truth simple, it's that which cannot be simpler - cannot be further reduced.

Unity consciousness is great, mystical union, being at one with the universe, the direct experience of the infinite. Bliss, ecstasy - a taste of heaven. Beyond time, beyond space, beyond the ability of any words to describe. The peace that surpasseth all understanding - but that's not enlightenment.

Enlightenment isn't when you go there, it's when there comes here. It's not a place you visit and then remember wistfully and try to return to. It's not a visit to the truth, it's the awakening of truth within you. It's not a fleeting state of consciousness, it's permanent truth realization - abiding non-dual awareness. It's not a place you visit from here, this is a place you visit from there. [It is to be] free of delusion and unbound by ego...

Nobody resides in a state of permanent bliss.
McKenna does say somewhere that enlightenment is not for everybody.

Key questions McKenna asks are, "What are you doing? Why are you doing it? Where's this going? What it is you're moving away from and what [is it] you're moving toward?"

I'm more and more of the opinion those who achieved enlightenment were in a way destined to do so, rather like Mozart was destined to be the composer he was. What then, of the lot of us who become intrigued with the notion? I believe McKenna's questions noted above are relevant because the notion to achieve enlightenment implies a personal judgment has been made that what one is at the moment, history and all, is insufficient, is not fully realized, could be better, etc. "What is it you're moving away from?" and why do you want to?

To deal with Kim's question, I've found nothing that would say achieving enlightenment has any potential impact on an afterlife. On the other hand, I believe managing to accept what is found, managing to achieve a true sense of unconcern quite probably has an impact. My favorite quote concerning true unconcern is in the Zen folder at http://www.yetanotherway.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5259#p5259
Last bumped by Gonzo on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:40 pm.
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