pondering enlightenment

[Red Heart]

I am reading G's posts on enlightenment, which got me to pondering...we seem to like to do that around here... anyway...what is the draw? I really dont get it. I am me, I am here having a human experience because I was born human...soooo Im having a human experience....isnt enlightenment supposed to make you more like "God"? Why would I want to be that....If I am this? Arent I both? What is "more" or "better"? G asked that question of me once...what makes you think "X" is better? Really...what makes us think its better? Why does it take up so much brainspace? Frankly Im REALLY beginning to think its a scam, and its a diversion from our human experience....If I wanted to learn how to build houses, and be a carpenter....I wouldnt spend half my time being a mechanic...neither one would advance to its pinnacle...<<<<<lightbulb moment!!!!>>>>>> Ohhh thats good stuff right there....I dont care who y'are

[Gonzo]

For me the draw is at least twofold: 1) discontent; 2) an attempt to understand.

[Zamurito]

~

Maive ponders:

I am reading G's posts on enlightenment, which got me to pondering...we seem to like to do that around here... anyway...what is the draw? I really dont get it.

Zam:

"Get it" is an interesting phrase. You don't get it intellectually or you don't get it once you've experienced it?

Maive:

I am me, I am here having a human experience because I was born human...soooo Im having a human experience....

Zam:

Who and what is "Me?" Okay, so you are having a human experience...

Maive:

isnt enlightenment supposed to make you more like "God"?

Zam:

What's enlightenment, or for that matter, what's God? Careful now...are either of these "What" questions?

Maive:

Why would I want to be that....If I am this? Arent I both? What is "more" or "better"? G asked that question of me once...what makes you think "X" is better? Really...what makes us think its better?

Zam:

Why would you want to be anything? Better? Someone reference me where 'better' is mentioned. (Other than casual conversation.) Jed made it clear there was no 'better.' Perhaps more expansive...

Maive:

Why does it take up so much brainspace? Frankly Im REALLY beginning to think its a scam, and its a diversion from our human experience....

Zam:

Thinking is the diversion from our human experience, yet how often is it questioned? Thinking is our personal history and is loaded with terms you mention above such as 'better.'

Maive:

If I wanted to learn how to build houses, and be a carpenter....I wouldnt spend half my time being a mechanic...neither one would advance to its pinnacle...<<<<<lightbulb moment!!!!>>>>>> Ohhh thats good stuff right there....I dont care who y'are

Zam:

Advance to its pinnacle? Isn't this 'better', which you criticize above?

Lightbulb moment?

You've got to turn on the switch first, my dear...

[Red Heart]

Maive ponders:

I am reading G's posts on enlightenment, which got me to pondering...we seem to like to do that around here... anyway...what is the draw? I really dont get it.

Zam:

"Get it" is an interesting phrase. You don't get it intellectually or you don't get it once you've experienced it?
Maive: Either. "get it" It does not compute emotionally or experentially. In my experience of reading/thinking/talking/hearing enlightenment is defined either directly or indirectly makes us somehow "better" different, more evolved, more conscious, less egoic, less likely to rust bust or gather dust. Make childbirth a pleasure...doesnt that somehow make the human experience "different"?
Maive:

I am me, I am here having a human experience because I was born human...soooo Im having a human experience....

Zam:

Who and what is "Me?" Okay, so you are having a human experience...
Maive: I am that I am...I was born in this form...other than that its anyones guess...
Maive:

isnt enlightenment supposed to make you more like "God"?

Zam:

What's enlightenment, or for that matter, what's God? Careful now...are either of these "What" questions?
Maive: I do not know for sure...but Im pretty sure that I either am it or dont want anything to do with it....did I win?
Maive:

Why would I want to be that....If I am this? Arent I both? What is "more" or "better"? G asked that question of me once...what makes you think "X" is better? Really...what makes us think its better?

Zam:

Why would you want to be anything? Better? Someone reference me where 'better' is mentioned. (Other than casual conversation.) Jed made it clear there was no 'better.' Perhaps more expansive...
Maive: Lemme look....Oh found this...Do not think you will necessarily be aware of your own enlightenment.
Dogen :To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
Buddha that sounds like better to me....just sayin...

Maive:

Why does it take up so much brainspace? Frankly Im REALLY beginning to think its a scam, and its a diversion from our human experience....

Zam:

Thinking is the diversion from our human experience, yet how often is it questioned? Thinking is our personal history and is loaded with terms you mention above such as 'better.'

I think our buddy Rene said it best "cogito ergo sum"

Maive:

If I wanted to learn how to build houses, and be a carpenter....I wouldnt spend half my time being a mechanic...neither one would advance to its pinnacle...<<<<<lightbulb moment!!!!>>>>>> Ohhh thats good stuff right there....I dont care who y'are

Zam:

Advance to its pinnacle? Isn't this 'better', which you criticize above?

Lightbulb moment?

You've got to turn on the switch first, my dear...

Maive: as with anything in life....the switch is an illusion, my love...

[Zamurito]

~

<chuckles>

You know I love you...

[Red Heart]

I know...you cant help it

[Zamurito]

~

Oh yes, my Sustainable Love.

[Gonzo]

~

Oh yes, my Sustainable Love.

So, you really ARE Forest Wolf/River.....

[Red Heart]

wow dont know where that came from...although logically and in a real non dual sense...yes I am, and so are you. Scooby dooby doo... So who are you today?

[Gonzo]

Heh...that was aimed at Zam, since FW/R is currently known as "Sustainable Love"....and non-dualism is for those who don't want to be alone.

[Zamurito]

~

Oh yes, my Sustainable Love.

So, you really ARE Forest Wolf/River.....

I've been discovered!



She's almost as annoying as I am.

[Red Heart]

She's almost as annoying as I am.

~

Oh yes, my Sustainable Love.

So, you really ARE Forest Wolf/River.....

I've been discovered!



She's almost as annoying as I am.

Almost...but not quite

[Red Heart]

Today in Chat I had an insight on some stuff and I just wanted to write it down.
""In Buddha's time, dynamic methods of meditation were not needed. People were more simple, more authentic. They lived a more real life. Now, people are living a very repressed life, a very unreal life. When they don't want to smile, they smile. When they want to be angry, they show compassion. People are false, the whole life pattern is false. People are just acting, not living. Many incomplete experiences go on being collected, piled up inside their minds." Found on an Osha site

Then a person came into chat and I had a chance to not act, but to be truly genuine. A word was used that I find offensive, I asked the person to please (and I did use please) not use that word as I find it offensive. No go, and was told that no words offend that person so basically tough shit. I proceeded to call that person a self absorbed prick and that person agreed, and said my opinion didnt matter, my respect for that person in that moment rose, but something else happened. I acted, I forgot that I was offended by the word used, my sensibility no longer mattered....is that ok? No not really. With the background told, the question to ponder.

My take on the situation. Just because it doesnt bother you why must you be so quick to explain what is wrong with me because it bothers me? I have been guilty of doing this before to justify my own bad behavior by the way... it appears that its another way to not take responsibility for your own growth. I have argued with people just to argue (I know shocking isnt it?) When did everyone become a self absorbed prick and ok with it? Is that what DJM was trying to get CC to understand? I dont think so. Where is the line between acting, being a doormat, and being genuine?

I wonder about my own genuineness. Now I question every act to see if I am being genuine or false. This could be fun! It could be enlightening too...

[Gonzo]

Do you think it necessary to blatantly honest with everyone?

[Red Heart]

How else can you be genuine?