Wonderings and Wanderings

[Red Heart]

Lately no one has been talking much. People are reading the posts but arent responding much. I have to wonder... why?

There has been some speculation in chat that no one wants their "beliefs" challenged. That people just want to flop around in their own muck, yet yearn for something else. Is that true? If that is true then why read what others are thinking?

Are folks afraid that if they really do the hard stuff that their lives will change and they will have no control over it? Fear is the mindkiller, and yes, life will be very different, and it will be hard to make the transitions sometimes but that is what is promised in pretty much every spiritual discipline. So it shouldnt be much of a surprise.

Are people looking to be told what to do? Why? They wont do it anyway.

Do folks just want to fight? That stopped here a while ago...(at least on the forum) thats just growing pains IMHO...then we get to another level of "maturity" where fighting is just a mindfuck, especially on the internet.
Doesnt get anyone anywhere really.

So does anyone out there want to discuss...not lecture, challenge...not fight, collaborate...not teach????
just sayin'...

[Zamurito]

~

Yes, let us discuss.

Topic?

[Zamurito]

~

How about...............defense of the self.

Why are we so concerned with our identity?

[Red Heart]

Ok, I see where we are going here, but what the fuck....lets go.

Identity is WHO we are. It is a painting in our mind of who we are and how we function in the world...it is our ego, our lens of "reality" if you will. When this is threatened we then become defensive, even going to great lengths to convince others that we are who we are, and YOU must be mightily fucked up not to believe/see what I see in the mirror every day. Thats where the mess usually happens IMHO. I am trying so very hard to convince the world/myself that I am that image in the mirror I lose sight of what is really there.

Sometimes people see good things, too good. Sometimes people see bad things...sometimes too bad. Thats why it is so imperative to lose "self" to move beyond self and to actually consider what others are saying may be true, and what you are saying to yourself is very often untrue....good bad and ugly.

Identity is tricky, what do you see in yourself? And you dont get to answer "a limpid pool" or any of that shit...lets get to the nitty gritty here.

[Gonzo]

I see a limpid pool....an autumn pond...an aging man who isn't me, and never has been. I don't like mirrors...perhaps thats one reason I quit shaving. I'm always rather stunned when I either see myself in a mirror, or see a picture of myself. That's not who I am. My son sees either Clint Eastwood or Indiana Jones. A yound lady in Canada once, when Kim and I stopped on our bike trip to buy groceries, was convinced I was Eastwood and wouldn't take No for an answer. I'm not Eastwood, and I really can't live up to my son's expectations.

Kim saw long, thin legs in Levi's, when I was 6'3", 185 seemingly forever...those days are gone as the fat of age and indulgence take over. I wonder about the statue of the the fat little smiling Buddha...I suspect he loved Budweiser.

We are what we think....if that's the case, I'm a multitude, varying constantly, from paranoia and failure to enlightened and serene, filled with aching sadness for a while, then not giving a good god damn the next, powerful and aggressive.

What a fucking history.

I once via "fantasy conversation" was asked to summarize what I felt about this experience of being human. I had one word: "disappointment". Out of the whole process I have learned the only way to any kind of personal contentment is acceptance - most especially acceptance of the errors, acceptance of the predilections some others consider negatives....damn the torpedoes....full speed ahead, until the next Doldrums.

At some point, the ability to answer "Is that so?" will be achieved.

[Red Heart]

WOW Gonzo...That was amazing....naked and pure thank you so much...anyone else man/woman enough to look...honestly?

[Zamurito]

~

Ok.

I looked, honestly.

Now what?

K

[Red Heart]

Care to tell what you found?

[Zamurito]

~

Care to tell what you found?

I will, but let me preface it with...

"It depends...."

or

"So what?"

or

"Is that so?"

See what I mean?

I look in the mirror and find a charming young man, bursting with joy, flooded with gratitude. Hey! It's a good day! Yesterday, my mindset was different and I saw a grouchy fuck who didn't feel quite right. Hey! It's a bad day! Just rides in the amusement park.

So what?

I look in the mirror and see a shifting image of my mind.

So what?

There is no object in the mirror. When I look in this mirror, this mirror is my mind. It is the essence of what is. As long as there is an object in that mirror then this is something to be sought after or feared. When this mirror is pure, when I see clearly then I say there is no image in the mirror. This is a pure mirror universe, not showing anything.

We're all fucked up anywho...I see this or that, but is it true? What do you see when you look in my mirror, at me? Or I, at you.

Reminds me of a cheesy flick with Steven Seagal, The Glimmer Man, where he's face to face with 'the bad guy.' He tells 'm something like:

"When you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror, I'm certain you are pleased; like what you see. I'm going to make sure you never get to look in that mirror again." Then of course is a fight scene and the bad dude dies a gruesome death.

The point I'm getting at is what you and gonz mentioned; fear and contentment.

What's true and what are we doing to dispell the illusion of the good, bad and ugly in the mirror?

Just accept the image in the mirror?

Sounds dandy, right?

There's more to it though...

Because we all lie to ourselves. We're seeking gain or avoiding fear.

I look in the mirror and see a nice guy. So? You look in the mirror and see a compassionate wife. Yea?

BFD.

How about we raise our awareness and take a look at all the angles. All the manipulations and personal history we have. Whatever we see in the mirror isn't true, regardless of what we see, so who cares what we see? (Other than to assist us in the realization that whatever we see is un-true.)

What are we going to do?

I've found two ways: Recapitulation and Self-Autolysis. One in the same, different, whatever.

We've got to dig up the shit; Who am I? What am I?

Those who have done it, know it. Those who haven't will continue their avoidance and live in fear and continue to lie to themselves and everyone else.


K

P.S. Just went to the mirror again to double-check what was there.

Guess who I saw?

Elvis!

Son-of-a-bitch....

Let me be quiet now...

Elvis has left the building....

[Gonzo]

I can still beat ur ass at pool.

[Zamurito]

~

I can still beat ur ass at pool.

That's because there was no money involved.

$20.00 per game (or more) and you'll be callin' me 'The Hustler.'



Oh shucks....There goes the secret...

K

[Red Heart]

Zam, That rocked and you brought up some amazing points:

So what?

I have wondered the same thing...however I think I may have hit upon something while practicing not thinking last night....Non-Dualism, I am not this, I am not that, I am neither yet I am both. If we cannot look at ourselves as this and that yet step outside of what that means we cannot become neither nor can we become both....I love Zen.

I see this or that, but is it true? What do you see when you look in my mirror, at me? Or I, at you.

I see me and I see you...as well as what has gone before. The trick is to not judge it, and let it be who it is...that is the tricksy part precious..

Just accept the image in the mirror?

Sounds dandy, right?

There's more to it though...

Because we all lie to ourselves. We're seeking gain or avoiding fear.

I look in the mirror and see a nice guy. So? You look in the mirror and see a compassionate wife. Yea?

Can we accept what we see? Or do we always want to change it? To grasp for what we perceive as better? Who decides whats better? A goooru? A teacher? A parent? A child, A lover...arent we all of those things? Where does the acceptance come from? Where do the lies come from? For me it was perpetuating abusive lies from childhood....I told them to myself when I became an adult, and thought that they were my own thoughts, it wasnt until I could be fearless enough to look at them and allow that I had been conned.
When I look in the mirror, I see a person that has seen the lies, knows that the lies are lies, yet struggles with unknowing, and unreacting to the lies....

I've found two ways: Recapitulation and Self-Autolysis. One in the same, different, whatever.

We've got to dig up the shit; Who am I? What am I?

[/quote]
Those who have done it, know it. Those who haven't will continue their avoidance and live in fear and continue to lie to themselves and everyone else.
[quote]

That my good friend...is a fuckin factual.

[datura]

Mirrors can be harsh and we see ourselves getting older. What happened to the child I once was when I first became aware I was 'something' individual?

How do people see me, perceive me? My family thinks im weird. Maybe I am weird. I have a lot of different beliefs, but so doesnt everyone else? We all believe in some form of mythical thing in some way, that may or may not be accuracte.

We love the myth cause we are latched onto dreams. Some like the dying saviour, some like the eagle who gives us the cubic centimeter of a chance.

When I look in the mirror I see no one special. Just 'me.' Me for now, but a being who is going to die. That is my reality.

So I live my life and no matter what the mirror reveals, I know its what is brewing on the inside behind there, behind my eyes, that truly counts.

[Red Heart]

Mirrors can be harsh and we see ourselves getting older. What happened to the child I once was when I first became aware I was 'something' individual?

Indeed, however there is some comfort in knowing that we are getting older, that we are here and there is nothing but possibility... possibility that regrets can be fixed, that a peace can happen, that the story has not been finished, and nothing is written in stone.

How do people see me, perceive me? My family thinks im weird. Maybe I am weird. I have a lot of different beliefs, but so doesnt everyone else? We all believe in some form of mythical thing in some way, that may or may not be accuracte.

This is THE issue isnt it? Comparing and contrasting ourselves with others....we will always lose, hence the importance of recapping, autolysis, being honest with the reflections around us. In the end it doesnt matter one little bit how others see us, it matters that we have seen ourselves honestly, but even more than honestly...ruthlessly. With ruthlessness comes accuracy, at least that has been my experience.

When I look in the mirror I see no one special. Just 'me.' Me for now, but a being who is going to die. That is my reality.

No one special? Really? If you are not special then why do you seek truth?

I know its what is brewing on the inside behind there, behind my eyes, that truly counts.

Whats brewing? What is truly brewing in there Datura?

[Red Heart]

I was listening to NPR last night on my way home and heard a phrase that really stuck with me...Word Salad.

I have cruised around on the net and read others ramblings about "spiritual warrior" matters, and found a plethora of word salad. A bunch of words that mean nothing...words that are supposed to appear intellectual, or cohesive yet when really examined mean nothing. I now ask a favor from you all...if I indulge in word salad....please bring it to my attention. Thanks in advance ~D