If You Meet the Buddha on the Road

[Affinity]

How often do you meet the Buddha on the road? Daily? How often do you kill him?

"To become aware is not to be superficially conscious, but to go into the full depth of consciousness so as not to leave undiscovered one unconscious reaction. All this demands thought; all this demands an alterness of mind and heart, not a mind that is cluttered up with beliefs, creeds, and ideals. Most minds are burdened with these and with the desire to follow. As you become conscious of your burden, don't say you mustn't have ideals, you mustn't have creeds, and repeat all the rest of the jargon. The very "must" creates another doctrine, another creed; merely become conscious and in the intensity of that consciousness, in the intensity of awareness, in that flame you will create such crisis, such conflict, that that very conflict itself will dissolve the hindrance." - J. Krishnamurti

Nothing in addition is required, you are already fully equipped. Self Inquiry, Recapitulation, Spiritual Autolysis, all only methods by which to make aware that which is unnoticed, unresolved, unaddressed. Where does the pursuit to identifying what serves you vs. what does not serve you lead? Rather opening to awareness that brings it all to light, accepting it all, what serves, what does not, fully embracing the totality. The mere process of acceptance negates a need to choose one over another, and as the need falls away, an ease to do or not do anything is unobscured.

“Purified and naked, free and unbound, hair disheveled, ears alert.” - Yuanwu

[Affinity]

Nirvana is this moment seen directly. There is nowhere else than here. The only gate is now. The only door way is your own body and mind. There's nowhere to go, there's nothing else to be, there's no destination. It's not something to aim for in the afterlife, it's simply the quality of this moment. Just this, just this. Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention.

[Kristopher]

~

"How often do you meet the Buddha on the road? Daily? How often do you kill him?”

Buddha is illusion, belief that he’s, ‘on the side of the road and ‘you’ can kill him,’ is delusion.

"To become aware is not to be superficially conscious,”…

Sure it is. Awareness = Consciousness, or conscious, thus, to be superficially conscious one is aware. If J were around (I’m under the impression he’s taking a dirt nap,) I’d ask him what ‘superficially conscious’ means to him. Perhaps what he’s getting at is, ‘superficially attentive.’ If one is conscious one is conscious, if one is not, they are not.

“…but to go into the full depth of consciousness so as not to leave undiscovered one unconscious reaction.” Sounds delightful, sign me up!

“All this demands thought;” Critical thinking is a Part of this, true….

“…all this demands an alterness of mind and heart,”

Alterness? Change? Alterness mind or thinking and see what occurs. Alter ‘heart’ and you’ll be taking a dirt nap along with J.

Also, the stupendous J takes a big leap with the comments above in regards to ‘thinking’ and then move right to ‘mind.’ Mind is all inclusive, thinking is a part of mind. J, based on his moving straight from one to the other terms appears to ‘think’ they are one and the same. Not true.

“…not a mind that is cluttered up with beliefs, creeds, and ideals.” To be clear, a (thinking) mind that (may) be cluttered up with beliefs, creeds and ideals. ‘Thought’ or thinking IS belief, creed and ideals.

“Most minds are burdened with these and with the desire to follow.” Ok, so (thinking) minds are burdened with these and with the desire to follow. Desire is…..? Emotion, as humans are emotional beings. Follow? Follow what? Mind? Thought? Follow to…where?

“As you become conscious…” Repetitive, redundant. Since you are you and are reading this or listening/watching J spew forth his opinions and beliefs, ‘you’ are ‘conscious.’ Once again, it seems J may be looking for the term attention or attentive. ‘As you become attentive…’

“of your burden,…” Great. …and now I’ve got a fucking burden. If you say so, kimosabe. ‘Burden’ is subjective (as it all is) and judgemental. Perhaps the word ‘opportunity’ would make for a better choice of word.

“don't say…” Why not? Are you the only one free to spew forth your belief stricken drivel?

“…you mustn't have ideals, you mustn't have creeds, and repeat all the rest of the jargon.” Avoiding the main gist of the lecture. All jargon is an attentive opportunity to truly understand said jargon.

“The very "must" creates another doctrine, another creed;…” Duality at its finest. At least he got this right, yet unsure if he understood what he wrote.

“…merely become conscious…” See above comments in regards to repetitive, redundant and word choice.

:”…and in the intensity of that consciousness, in the intensity of awareness,…” Intense consciousness/awareness. This implies there’s un-intense or not intense consciousness/awareness? Perhaps just yet another incorrect choice of words.

“…in that flame you will create such crisis, such conflict, that that very conflict itself will dissolve the hindrance." Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get it!

A cozy, stylish, new age quote, using a lot of words to say, “Get real.” Or, define ‘what’s real’ or ‘who am I’ or ‘what is me?’ or ‘no belief is true.’

- J. Krishnamurti

“Nothing in addition is required, you are already fully equipped.” Sure there is. Can you see it? Action.

“Self Inquiry, Recapitulation, Spiritual Autolysis, all only methods by which to make aware that which is unnoticed, unresolved, unaddressed.” Make aware and put to action…

“Where does the pursuit to identifying what serves you vs. what does not serve you lead?”

Lead? Down a path? “All paths are one in a million paths and lead no-where.” Paths are for those concerned with paths, not untangling self.

“Rather opening to awareness…” Is it possible to not open to awareness? As one IS awareness, how can one not open to it? This may read, ‘Open to thought, belief, faith, self…what does this show you?’

“…that brings it all to light,…” It does? Perhaps it brings it all to dark? Dark = absence of light. Why not?

“…accepting it all,…” Who is accepting? What does accept mean? What ‘it’ is being accepted? ‘All’ what? What to do with ‘it’ once ‘all’ is accepted? Where am I going to put it? I’m going to put ‘it’ in my pockets, because they are empty now…

“…what serves, what does not, fully embracing the totality.” Totality? Totality of Self? Yippie! Please tell me what that means to you. What’s Self?

“The mere process of acceptance negates a need to choose one over another,…” It does? You’ve a ‘whole lotta love’ going on here in this sentence. ‘The mere process.’ What’s mere about it? What process? Oh, wait, ‘process of acceptance.’ Please detail this out for me, I’m kinda dumb. Also, please ‘splain this to me: If one is in acceptance, how does one negate? Doesn’t negate, err, negate acceptance?

“A need to choose…” Who is choosing what? Choice. Hmmm…this seems to dip into the realm of, well, choice, free will, predilection and destiny. If ‘you’ change the way ‘you’ look at ‘things,’ the things you look at change.

“…and as the need falls away,…” Mine fell right into a gorge. I’ve got the winch, would you mind hooking up to my needs so I can retrieve them?

Thank you Aff for yet another enlightened post.

How often do you meet the Buddha on the road? Daily? How often do you kill him?

"To become aware is not to be superficially conscious, but to go into the full depth of consciousness so as not to leave undiscovered one unconscious reaction. All this demands thought; all this demands an alterness of mind and heart, not a mind that is cluttered up with beliefs, creeds, and ideals. Most minds are burdened with these and with the desire to follow. As you become conscious of your burden, don't say you mustn't have ideals, you mustn't have creeds, and repeat all the rest of the jargon. The very "must" creates another doctrine, another creed; merely become conscious and in the intensity of that consciousness, in the intensity of awareness, in that flame you will create such crisis, such conflict, that that very conflict itself will dissolve the hindrance." - J. Krishnamurti

Nothing in addition is required, you are already fully equipped. Self Inquiry, Recapitulation, Spiritual Autolysis, all only methods by which to make aware that which is unnoticed, unresolved, unaddressed. Where does the pursuit to identifying what serves you vs. what does not serve you lead? Rather opening to awareness that brings it all to light, accepting it all, what serves, what does not, fully embracing the totality. The mere process of acceptance negates a need to choose one over another, and as the need falls away, an ease to do or not do anything is unobscured.

“Purified and naked, free and unbound, hair disheveled, ears alert.” - Yuanwu

[Kristopher]

~

"Nirvana is this moment seen directly."

Stylish! Do 'we' see 'this moment' or see objects within 'this moment'? Next time we're in chat, please demonstrate how to see this moment.

"There is nowhere else than here." Great. What about 'there?' I look over there and see there, don't I? Or is over there on the fireplace really here? There was there, yet when I see it it's now here? Oh well, here or there, I'm feeling rather precious today, which is here, not yesterday, which must have been there, or it was here when I was there yesterday...

"The only gate is now." Now is a gate? A gate to...? There or here? I thought now was here?!?! Shit, 'now' I'm neither 'here' nor 'there'!

"The only door way is your own body and mind." Door way? WTF? I thought we were talking gates! Ok, let me get this straight....now is a gate, my mind/body is a doorway. Ok, got it. Now, the gate, my mind/body doorway, is residing in abiding non-dual awareness, right here, now.

"There's nowhere to go,..." Sure there is, damnit! I have to 'go' to the store for some delicious steaks that are on sale at Albertson's over 'there'. Well, hold on a second. You mentioned above, "There is nowhere else than here." That doesn't feel right. As we're in duality, dualistic state, nowhere must be there, and here is here. Here, here! Oh oh...but my steaks at Albertson's are over there! They're certainly not 'here,' or I'd not need to go over 'there' to get them to my house, 'here', right? Yet, if I do go 'there,' it's the new here, not this present moment here! Whoa...glad I got that figured out. I could almost feel, 'here' and 'now,' a myocardial infarction coming on; right here, right now!

Oh shit. Hold on... Sorry sorry, love me love me. How can I be here, now? The moment I 'think' here/now, it's already 'past'. Perhaps it's just my perception that's there, or here, or here/there?

What about 'me' in multiverse? Are 'they' here/now? Look at that! 'I'm' eating 'my' steak already, in the there! Or is that here? Regardless, 'I' just ate 'my' steak yet 'I'm' not eating 'my' steak! Or am 'I'? 'I' feel right here and now I'm not eating my steak, and that's all that matters; thy grumbling, hungry stomach is what matters. You really want to know 'where' 'my' steak is? That little traitor fuck is eating it in the matrix with Mr. Smith! .....but are they here or there? I'm so confuzed.....

"there's nothing else to be,.." What else can we be?

"there's no destination." Fucking marvelous. Now I'll have to cancel my winter vacation. I really was looking forward to skiing in Colorado. "I'm sorry Ang, vacation is a no go, Aff said there's no there, only here, so here we are!"

"It's not something to aim for in the afterlife,..." It's .... what? Now I'm lost. Afterlife? I thought we were 'here' only? Is the afterlife there? Or, once we're there, the afterline, we're now here?

"...it's simply the quality of this moment." What the hell is this IT?? Quality? There's qualities of moments? How do 'I' then 'choose' one quality moment over the other? Or, am I just accepting and negating at the same exact moment, 'here', as you mentioned in your 'previous' (there?) post?!?!?

"Just this, just this." THIS?!?!?! Above you said, "IT!" Is it, this? 'Just' also seems to imply selection or a singular. Is the this/it just? Just this, just it - so I suppose choice is out the window. "Just this" must then be here, predilection/destiny.

"Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention." I'm trying man, I'm trying. Your Nagualicious use of words truly IS enlightening.

Nirvana is this moment seen directly. There is nowhere else than here. The only gate is now. The only door way is your own body and mind. There's nowhere to go, there's nothing else to be, there's no destination. It's not something to aim for in the afterlife, it's simply the quality of this moment. Just this, just this. Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention.

[Affinity]

Emotionally painful changes in life are not easy.

[Affinity]

"Pay attention, pay attention, pay attention." I'm trying too.

[Gonzo]

How would you recognize the Buddha? How is it you know his attributes? How would you recognize Jesus, or don Juan, or any of the rest of the "achieved masters"? I suspect what this allegory is talking about has something to do with ourselves, our expectations, our judgements of ourselves as not being "there", of NOT being Buddha or any of the rest. Perhaps slaying the Buddha means really ridding yourself of the idea of the Buddha, especially as it may represent one's higher self, or perhaps a level of achievement.

[Kristopher]

How would you recognize Jesus, or don Juan, or any of the rest of the "achieved masters"?

Speaking of...

Dreaming last night with Juan, Jesus, Buddha and John.

Juan said his beans are the best...

Jesus said he's still the best pool player...

Buddha said he can consume the most beer...

John said, "Is that so?" "I'm rather unconcerned..."

[Kristopher]

~

Another point Andrew raised that's worth considering here had to do with the edict "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." From the sound of it, this too was a subject of on-going debate between Andrew and his fellow Buddhists.

"Hmmm," I said, enjoying fond recollections. "I didn't know what that meant when I first heard it either."

"But you do now?" Andrew asked. I think he was convinced that this was a koan-like statement not really accessible to comprehension.

"Sure," I replied. "It means something along the lines of `When you get to the second stoplight, take a left."'

Andrew just stared at me.

"It's a travel direction," I continued. "It's not a priceless pearl of wisdom like wear a seatbelt or brush between meals. It's just a simple piece of advice like one traveler who's been to a particular place might offer another who is going there."

Andrew still wasn't getting it, probably because I was amusing myself with guru babble. I made an effort to express myself more clearly.

"On the road to enlightenment, there is one magic word. It's your mantra, your battle cry. The word is further. Very important. Big deal. We don't have to concern ourselves with the importance of further right now, just take my word for it.

Someday, maybe in this life, you're going to begin the process of true awakening and a word like further can serve as a very powerful talisman. There's no real reason to dwell on the kill-the-Buddha thing now except to get it out of your head.

By which I mean, there's no real benefit to you in understanding this except to not dwell on it anymore. The time will come when you understand it for yourself in totality, and after that you'll probably never give it another thought, just like any single piece of direction on a long journey."

Despite my cautious disclaimers, Andrew was on the edge of his seat waiting to find out why he should kill the Buddha.

"There are times in the process of waking up when those who have traveled the path before you can come to your aid and provide a clue as to your next step.

That's really all that any teacher or teaching can really provide - the occasional sign post.

It may be in a big general way, like the word further, or it may be in a small specific way, like the kill-the-Buddha thing. When I went through it all, I did it without a teacher or guru, but I had the help of many previous travelers who had taken the trouble to leave signs and warnings and hints along the way.

Poets, philosophers, sages-serious people. People who took the time to set down what they knew for those that would come after."

I pause for a minute, unsure that I want to discuss this. I guess I do.

"It's a somewhat disconcerting aspect of the journey that you catch up to, and go beyond, some of your own mentors-move beyond people you've held in the highest possible regard. I was acutely aware of this occurring on several occasions and I can tell you that it's a strange and daunting experience, all the more so because it's quite specific and unmistakable when it happens. These are the giants in the field, so to speak, and the simple though peculiar-sounding fact is that I became very close to these people and in a very real sense, when I came to where they had stopped off, I stopped with them and paid my deepest respects and moved beyond them with a heavy heart. I have no idea how that sounds to someone who hasn't experienced it, but it was a wrenching part of the whole thing and it feels good to tell someone about it."

Andrew seemed absorbed in my reminiscences. I was careful not to mention the names of my mentors to Andrew. The teachers we need will always be there when we need them, no reason to track down someone else's.

“’Kill the Buddha' is one of these signs that has been left by a previous traveler. It has a very specific application. It has meaning at one particular juncture that one comes to on the path, rather late in the journey, as I recall. It means nothing before you reach this particular place. Then, the time comes when you're there and the next thing you're supposed to do isn't exactly clear to you. In fact, the wrong thing seems quite correct and is extremely tempting. And then, as if from nowhere, this absurd little phrase about killing the Buddha pops into your head and your heart swells with inexpressible gratitude, and you know what to do and danger of slipping back into a coma is averted." I laughed at the power of the memory. "That's life on the path, man. It's a trip."

I spent a few moments in my own fond remembrances before summarizing for Andrew.

"It means further. At a very exact point in the journey when it would be very easy to sit down and think you're done, it means `Get up! You're not there yet. Don't be deceived. Don't be sentimental. Don't be complacent. Keep moving. You think you're there but you're not. You're still seeing two where there's only one. That image you're kneeling in front of whoever it is, whatever it is - is just another projection of your own bullshit. Kill the fuckin' thing and keep going.' That's what it means."

[Gonzo]

That image you're kneeling in front of whoever it is, whatever it is - is just another projection of your own bullshit. Kill the fuckin' thing and keep going.' That's what it means."

Ah, that Jed...

[Affinity]

So yeah, what I said in the first post of this thread.

[Gonzo]

So yeah, what I said in the first post of this thread.

Yeah, well, but it's enjoyable to sort of chew on the idea from a couple of different angles.

[Affinity]

Indeed, good confirmation when it all circles back around.

[Gonzo]

Indeed, good confirmation when it all circles back around.

And so, I guess we're chasing our tales, but then..."We are game-playing, fun-having creatures, we are the otters of the universe", eh?

[redspiderlily]

And so, I guess we're chasing our tales, but then..

Nice play on words Gonz! Ten point for that one!