Moderator: Gonzo
Affinity wrote:My favorite part was... "bible thumping cherubs of Jesus".
Kristopher wrote:The term Nagual is used for those who need it as a form of 'trickery of the Spirit'. It is used for the likes of 'pieces of shit,' such as Carlos and Juan, by their own admission. It's a didactic device used to teach. It bolsters the 'self' while here on the Tonal, to temper the fixation of the warrior's way.
Thus, to say there is a 'Nagual Planet' is pure poppycock. There's only one reason one may say this, and that would be, a gathering of people in an AP position, assumed to be a special place, as well as a special title such as 'Nagual.' This also assumes that those who mention this have actually been able to hold a different AP position, which, from my experience, I seriously doubt.
Nagual, or a leader of a party, is pure ego and self importance. If you doubt me, re-read CC's work in this light. Look how don Juan uses the term. Also look at how he refers to Silvio Manuel. He clearly stated that Silvio was more powerful than everyone, he was one with Intent.
There is no need for a Nagual, a leader, a teacher, or anyone or anything else, other than to kick the shit out of you to keep you pressing on, Further! The Self needs to be overcome and understood, and that's the true teaching of CC as well as many others.
This comes straight from TOFs or The Old Farts. Within the AP position they are in, there's no Naguals, leaders, etc., etc. They are as close to each of us as our skin, and as far away from us as a distant galaxy. Nor is there any party, or Nagual Party.
Again, thats used in the books to teach the different facets of the Self. Do warriors band together? Sure. Yet, they are not together as depicted in the books, or any other fantasy one may have in their own mind. Each individual is their own Self, with their own challenges.
The only leader, nagual, whatever, is The Spirit, which again, is explained to exhaustion in CC's work. Now, work on what The Spirit 'is' to your own perception and this unraveling will lead you further.
Kristopher wrote:Your moment of Essential Zen:: Perhaps the deepest reason why we are afraid of death is because we do not know who we are. We believe in a personal, unique, and separate identity,' but if we dare to examine it, we find that this identity depends entirely on an endless collection of things to prop it up; our name, our biography our partners, family, home, job, friends, credit cards. It is on their fragile and transient support that we rely for our security.
Without our familiar props, we are faced with just ourselves, a person we do not know, an unnerving stranger with whom we have been living all the time but we never really wanted to meet. Isn't that why we have tried to fill every moment of time with noise and activity, however boring or trivial, to ensure that we are never left in silence with this stranger on our own?
turin otzaki wrote:Gonzo you are taking this 'life outside of the chatroom shit' way to far. Get your ass back in there.
"Then there IS a sorcerers' explanation!"
"Certainly. Sorcerers are men. We're creatures of thought. We seek clarifications."
"I was under the impression that my great flaw was to seek explanations."
"No. Your flaw is to seek convenient explanations, explanations that fit you and your world. What I object to is your reasonableness. A sorcerer explains things in his world too, but he's not as stiff as you."
"At any rate, you know now about the tonal and the nagual, which are the core of the sorcerers' explanation.
The mystery, or the secret, of the sorcerers' explanation is that it deals with unfolding the wings of perception."
"Only if one loves this earth with unbending passion can one release one's sadness," don Juan said. "A warrior is always joyful because his love is unalterable and his beloved, the earth, embraces him and bestows upon him inconceivable gifts. The sadness belongs only to those who hate the very thing that gives shelter to their beings."
Don Juan again caressed the ground with tenderness.
"This lovely being, which is alive to its last recesses and understands every feeling, soothed me, it cured me of my pains, and finally when I had fully understood my love for it, it taught me freedom."
"The sorcerers' explanation cannot at all liberate the spirit. Look at you two. You have gotten to the sorcerers' explanation, but it doesn't make any difference that you know it. You're more alone than ever, because without an unwavering love for the being that gives you shelter, aloneness is loneliness.
"Only the love for this splendorous being can give freedom to a warrior's spirit; and freedom is joy, efficiency, and abandon in the face of any odds. That is the last lesson. It is always left for the very last moment, for the moment of ultimate solitude when a man faces his death and his aloneness. Only then does it make sense."
He paused. The silence around us was frightening. The wind hissed softly and then I heard the distant barking of a lone dog.
"Listen to that barking," don Juan went on. "That is the way my beloved earth is helping me now to bring this last point to you. That barking is the saddest thing one can hear."
We were quiet for a moment. The barking of that lone dog was so sad and the stillness around us so intense that I experienced a numbing anguish. It made me think of my own life, my sadness, my not knowing where to go, what to do.
"That dog's barking is the nocturnal voice of a man," don Juan said. "It comes from a house in that valley towards the south. A man is shouting through his dog, since they are companion slaves for life, his sadness, his boredom. He's begging his death to come and release him from the dull and dreary chains of his life."
Don Juan's words had caught a most disturbing line in me. I felt he was speaking directly to me.
"That barking, and the loneliness it creates, speaks of the feelings of men," he went on. "Men for whom an entire life was like one Sunday afternoon, an afternoon which was not altogether miserable, but rather hot and dull and uncomfortable. They sweated and fussed a great deal. They didn't know where to go, or what to do. That afternoon left them only with the memory of petty annoyances and tedium, and then suddenly it was over; it was already night."
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